koeifandomcom-20200223-history
User talk:Sake neko
Past discussions can be seen here: User talk:Sake neko/Archive Zhenji Hi i just wanted to know because I really can't understand how did zhenji's name because zhenshi could you please explain btw your edits are so great!!! :D 09:13, June 27, 2012 (UTC) :I'm going to assume you don't know Japanese/Chinese so please bear with me if you do. It's one of those things which can't be translated into English very well, like the many Chinese terms used to say that someone is "cute". It's a bit of a sore thumb for those who can speak/read Chinese characters. Please don't be offended if you're a feminist, please. ::Lady (氏, shi) = formal character for a married woman. This is often used if the given name for a woman was not recorded. Often tied to the woman's maiden name (thus Zhenshi and not Caoshi). Not always the case in historical records, since there have been cases in which their husband's family name has been used. Another English translation which could be used is "Madam", but some translators thinks this conflicts with another formal title for a married woman (夫人 is one of them). ::Now this character (姫) is a tricky one. In Japanese, it is often used historically to note a woman of aristocratic status. Not necessarily a married woman (although they often are) but a woman who has been at least been recognized as a member to a particular family. It is comprised of the Chinese characters "woman" and "vassal", so it literally means a woman who is serving a particular family as political property. This is often translated as "princess", but this isn't particularly 100% accurate for every figure. Let's just stick with princess for simplicity's sake. ::If the woman was lucky, they would have either their nickname or given name recorded at one point. This character (姫) was then attached to their given name. Sometimes it was historically recorded as such, other times it's been added by later generations or by people living today even. That's what you see with Ina, Kai, and so on. Lady Zhen has no historical given name, so that's why it's Zhenji for us overseas mooks. Omega Force may have thought they were saying something like "Princess Zhen" to note her status as a woman of nobility. ::In China, however, the character (姫) can have a significantly different meaning. It can be used to note a woman's surname, but it can also be used to note the noble status of a man's many concubines. There are several titles for "concubine" in Chinese which have been used historically. The "Da" in "Daji", for instance, happens to be one of them. ::You can probably spot several others if you researched, but the point is that "ji" (姫) is one of those many terms which can be used to note someone as a concubine or imperial consort. Usually used for a woman if she's an unmarried lover who comes from a family of modest prestige. The DW name "Zhenji" literally puts Lady Zhen on the same boat as Yuji, who was loved but was not a wife for Xiang Yu. ::Now, you are already well aware that Lady Zhen was married and not a mistress. So putting the "ji" next to her name might be misleading to people who aren't familiar with the Three Kingdoms period. Can you imagine how some Chinese bloke would feel trying to explain it? "No, she's never been a mistress. She's been married. Yes, I know what it says, but it's actually this!" So I'm figuring that's why they chose to go with a fictional but iconic name for Lady Zhen in their localization. ::If they wanted to simultaneously keep the same type of connotations for Japanese and Chinese, they should have really used something like "gongzhu" (公主) instead. But this is foreign to many Japanese speakers and only people who understand and have at least studied Chinese culture would really understand it. Since the DW series is made to appeal to the casual Japanese consumer with an easy-to-absorb Three Kingdoms setting, the "Zhenji" was kept. If you're wondering, the ROTK series doesn't use Zhenji in the original Japanese script. These games use the formal "Zhenshi" or "Lady Zhen". ::In my opinion, "Zhenji" was fine for her until DW4 when her marriages were emphasized. Then it became pretty awkward to keep using. Then again, it's just a video game and it's a pretty minor thing to get miffed over. I mostly wanted to give some context as to why she is called Zhen Luo/Zhen Mi in the Chinese editions of the DW series. If you didn't understand it from first reading it, it means I probably need to reword it better. Sake neko 17:25, June 27, 2012 (UTC) oh okay I get it now. and regarding the Zhen Luo she was called that because of the poem that Cao pi's brother dedicated it to her thats what I heard about, it was called Goddess of Luo river it is such a beautiful poem 04:25, June 28, 2012 (UTC)